Ex-Mormon Stories

My brother sent me this tonight and I got a good chuckle out of it. Fair warning: If you’re Christian, this will offend you. Just thought I’d throw that out there ahead of time so you could choose whether or not to watch it.

On the other hand, if you’re wanting a thought-provoking movie that points out large flaws in the reasoning of what Jesus did and did not do on earth, this is just the ticket. Watch and enjoy!

NOTE: I asked Chris to write up his story for my site. I know that he does not fit the mold of normal stories here at Ex-Mormon Stories (ie, he was never Mormon) but I thought that his story was a great example of life in the born-again Christian world, which, as you’ll see, is fairly close to the Mormon world in a lot of ways. So I hope y’all enjoy it!

As a child, I went to Sunday school most Sundays, and my family went to church about twice a month, and always on Christmas and Easter. My family prayed at most meals, always the same prayer, repeated in a monotone as fast my brothers and I could mutter it so we could get to the food. “Come, Lord Jesus, be our guest, and let this food to us be blessed. In Jesus name, Amen.” Other than that, you couldn’t really describe my family as “religious.”

Church was something that we went to because that’s just what you were expected to do. I’m not sure what my dad believes; in fact, I’m still not sure. If I had to pick who was the most spiritual in my family, I would have to say my mother. Especially after her mom died. She believes that Grandma is still watching us, and expresses herself when she’s upset by knocking over an angel figurine that sits on a shelf in her living room.

I went to a Lutheran church through most of my childhood, but we switched to the Methodist church when we moved when I was about thirteen. There I got involved in youth group, because when you’re the new kid in town with no friends, you’ll pretty much do anything to meet people. So every Wednesday night, I would go to this group and we would have devotionals and play games.

There were also the retreats. These are what got to me. I would be with all these people, adults and teenagers who loved God and Jesus. They were so free because of Him, so happy that they were forgiven! They pressed the idea on us that we are all sinners in God’s world, and the only way to avoid burning forever was to confess all your worldly sins to Christ, and accept him into your life as your personal Lord and Savior. Wow.

They pressed and pushed that point for the entire week. Looking back now, I can honestly say that it was a form of brainwashing. If anyone doesn’t know what I’m talking about, watch the movie Jesus Camp. Kids admitting to have being ‘saved’ when they were five years old. Like a five year old has any concept of what that means or even what eternal means. Sorry, I digress…

So, after being taught to believe that I, and everyone else in the world, was innately a sinner and going to hell, I asked Jesus to forgive my sins (though I didn’t really know what I had done wrong, besides the normal kid stuff, i.e. lying about homework, small fights at school). Now I was hooked. I started to teach Sunday school, I joined youth retreat planning committees, joined the church choir, read the entire Left Behind series…which, by the way, no young, impressionist teen should EVER read.

But, all through this, in the back of mind, I was scared to death. I was terrified that I didn’t really believe, and that I was going to burn in hell because of it. It kept me awake many nights, wondering about God, wondering if I was a ‘true believer,’ worrying about hell. I never told my parents or my family how much into religion I was, but at the same time, I worried about them. I worried because I was pretty sure that they hadn’t accepted Jesus, and they would burn in hell.

These thoughts tortured me for years, and there were times when I would re-affirm my faith, but I would still l worry constantly. At times I would think that there was no God, but then immediately in my head apologize to Him for my lack of faith, and then I would pray that he would lead my mind away from these blasphemous thoughts.

Once, while on a mission trip with the church, I confessed this to one of the counselors. He told me I needed to pray more, and read John, and I did that night in my sleeping bag with a flashlight.  Again, I asked Jesus to forgive me and come into my life and guide me in what to do.

The next day, singing praise songs at one of our ‘sessions’ as they were called, I felt at peace, like it had finally happened. God and Jesus (or as my youth group invented, G-dog and lil’ J) had come into my life, and taken away all worry.

This lasted about a week. Then all my feelings of uncertainty came back. It’s very hard to explain. I doubted my religion, but at the same time, I knew if I doubted I would burn. But if I knew I was going to burn for doubting, didn’t that mean that I did believe? Needless to say, I was confused.

I had a friend in high school, who was a homosexual and a Wiccan. He was, and still is, also one of the kindest people I knew. Charity work, fundraising, volunteering, you name it. Today, in fact, he’s running for a student office in his college, Vice President I believe.

But I wondered, how can God let him burn in hell? He’s not a bad person, he just lives differently, but he’s no deviant, he doesn’t sacrifice children upon a fiery alter. Hell, he’d done more charity work on his own than I’d ever done through all my Christian groups! We would have discussions about religion all the time, never to serious, but he explained to me what he believed, and vice versa.

I can remember thinking, “I can believe he thinks all this bullshit actually works! Trying to summon the power of wind, earth, fire, water, and spirit, I’ve never heard anything more ridiculous in my life!”

I wish I had something more exciting to write about the next couple years, but it’s fairly simple. I finished my high school education, my faith weakening all the while. I still lived in denial, and told myself and everyone around me that I was a true believer. But once I moved away from home for college, I never found a church, telling myself that God knows I believe and I don’t have to go to church to prove it. Whenever I did hang around other believers, I found myself growing increasingly uncomfortable.

Then, someone I know, someone whose story all you people know, declared that she had left the LDS church, and was now an atheist. This certainly didn’t inspire me abandon my beliefs, it just made me realize that mine were never really there. I have now come to terms with the fact that I am also an atheist, though I haven’t told many people.

The people I’m closest to don’t know. I’m backwards that way. The people I’ve told, while they are friends, are not my closest friends. I haven’t told my family either because, even though they knew I was very involved in the church, they never really knew how deep I was. If they ever ask about my personal beliefs I’ll tell them, unashamed. I now appreciate the world for what it is. A natural set of coincidences that we, as Homo sapiens, were lucky enough to be a result of.

We are lucky to be here, and are fortunate to even have the ability and imagination to come up with such a thing as God. I now think that religion was the only way humankind could first try to explain the world. But, we live in a modern age, and we have better explanations, that make much more sense. People tend to think that atheists must be deeply depressed, “You mean you think that this is all there is?!?!” Actually, I found it very liberating when I faced the truth.

We live out our time, try to make it as enjoyable and as long as we can, then we die. I like to think that we can be good people just for the sake of it, not out of a fear of burning forever in a fiery pit. When the Lyoness asked me to write my story, I didn’t know if what I wrote would be good enough to put up anywhere, since it is mostly just about a kid confused about religion.

But as mundane as it may sound here, this was a huge trial of my life that took many years (ages thirteen through twenty - hey, maybe that was my seven years of “tribulation”) to work through. I’m glad I went through it though; it made me who I am today…a person finally at peace with myself and the world.

~Chris

Let me just say it upfront: I have a very short memory at times.  I will sign up for something or do something ages ago, and then only remember about it when it comes back to bite me in the butt.  Go me.

The latest example of this is Facebook and Digg.  I have an account on Facebook (like 95% of the rest of the world does,) and one of the features on Facebook is that you can link your favorite social bookmarking sites (like Digg) to your Facebook account so that your friends on Facebook can see what you’re digging on Digg, right?

Well, this works GREAT in theory, except for when you have a polarized life like I do.  I have the “ex-Mormon/not even a Christian” side of me, and then I have the “still Mormon/still pro-God” side of me.  If it were up to me, there would be no split.  Everyone who knows me or ever knew me in the past should know who I really am.  I don’t want to hide the fact that I left the LDS Church from anyone.  I am who I am - either accept me or get out of my life.

But said in a very nice way, of course.

The problem comes with the fact that my husband. Deej, isn’t nearly so open about this whole “left the Church” deal and for that reason, he still has not told his parents or one of his brothers. In fact, the only people on his side of the family who know are his older brother and his two sisters (and note: I was the one who told them, not him).  The entire rest of the extended family (nephews, uncles, aunts, etc) have no clue.

It gets really sticky when you consider the fact that my husband does not have a Facebook page, so his family all added me as a friend, as a way of keeping track of Deej and I.

I, of course, plain forgot that I had linked my Digg account and my Facebook account, and so I would Digg the articles that I think deserved to be dugg, and that was that.  Until today, when I had a friend write a note on Facebook asking me about an article that I dugg.

“What are you talking about?” I wondered.  I looked at my Facebook page, and sure enough, there was my Digg (my vote, if you will) towards that article.

Whoops.

There was nothing inherently wrong with the article (it simply stated that being pro-science wasn’t being anti-God, and that as long as you don’t try to mix science and God together, you’re in good shape) but the problem comes with the fact that a good little Mormon girl shouldn’t be approving of and helping promote such articles.  And my friend, who is born again Christian and who does know that I left the Church, was offended by my Digging of the article, despite her attempts to try not to show it.

When I saw that my Diggs show up on Facebook, I instantly realized that my problem goes much deeper than my born-again Christian friend seeing this.  My husband’s brother (the one who does not know about us leaving the Church) is active on Facebook. There’s a really good chance that he or his wife have been paying attention to my Diggs and whatever else over the past couple of months and have actually known the truth for a while (but just haven’t said anything?)

And even if they haven’t noticed before, there’s always the very good chance that they’re going to notice soon.

I told my husband what was happening, and pointed out that there were also other relatives of his on Facebook and pretty soon, this was all going to come crashing down on our heads.  Despite my best efforts, Deej would not agree to tell anyone else the truth.  I pushed as hard as I could, but he refused to budge, and I can’t tell his relatives without his permission.  They are his relatives, not mine, and therefore it is his call.

Compare, if you will:

I have told every single person in my family that I have left the Church, plus every single friend who is in any way close to me.

My husband told one coworker when it first happened.

Yes, I am a lot more upfront about things than he is, what was your first clue?

All of this just made me realize that although there are a lot of really great benefits to the internet, social bookmarking, and social networking, there is also a pretty good chance that you’re going to end up letting someone find out something about you that you normally never would have told them.

If you’re wondering what I’ve decided about my Diggs showing up on Facebook, the answer is I’m keeping it just the way it is.  I am who I am.  If Deej’s relatives have to find out the bad news the hard way, then that’s just what happens.

I told Deej this morning that when his relatives find out the truth through Facebook and it causes some pretty nasty blow-ups, then I am fully reserving the right to say, “I told you so.”  I told him that he absolutely should not be allowing his relatives to find out about his religious beliefs from Facebook, but that I cannot force him to do something he doesn’t want to, so in the end it’s up to him.

In the meanwhile, I’m going to continue Digging and leaving my religious status as “agnostic” and in general just lead my life the way it should be led - without fear of what other people think.

So dear readers, have you encountered this crossover between your usually separate lives?  How do you deal with it?  Do you try to keep your (non-Mormon) religious life separated from your Mormon friends and family?  Or do you let it all hang out?

I picked up From Housewife to Heretic: One Woman’s Struggle for Equal Rights and Her Excommunication from the Mormon Church by Sonia Johnson because it was recommended by quite a few different people as being a great book to read after leaving the LDS Church.

I just finished it, and I have to say, I am on the fence about this book.  On one hand, it was an eye-opening book for me because I was born much too late to hear anything about the struggle in the 70’s for the Equal Rights Amendment.  By time I was old enough to understand any of that, it wasn’t being talked about on the news anymore, and they certainly weren’t bringing it up in Sacrament Meeting, lol.  I had literally never heard the name Sonia Johnson before, so her story (and even the struggle towards ratifying the ERA) was all new to me.

When I was reading From Housewife to Heretic, I was surprised by how many parallels there were between the ERA story and Proposition 8 in California last fall.  When I was watching the news this past fall, I was upset and appalled by how much the LDS Church was sticking its nose into politics - a church should not get involved in politics that way, period.  And if it does, then it ought to have its nonprofit status taken away from it.

But as upset as I was about Proposition 8, I would have blown my top if I had known that the Church had done it before.  The LDS Church did the same thing in the 70’s when it fought against the Equal Rights Amendment, and I am absolutely shocked that as a true-believing member of this church, I was completely ignorant of that fact.  How is that possible?  How could I attend years and years of meetings and lessons and the temple sessions, and have no clue?  How did I miss it?

It’s simple - the Church carried on as if it never happened.  Pretty soon, another story takes its place, and the world moves on.  The Church moves on.  And the new members are left in the dark.  This makes me really sad because the idea of the young children being raised in the Church today not having any idea of what the LDS Church did in California when they get older is depressing.  We have to fight the same battle as each new generation rises up.  Uggh.

So what made me conflicted about the book?  Well, I’m not sure I’m going to explain this very well, but I will try.  I was bothered by Sonia Johnson’s extremism.  That is just me - when I read a book extolling the virtues of the Republicans and talking about how the Democrats are just a hair short of the devil in disguise, I have to roll my eyes and sigh.  And when I read a book talking about how Democrats are amazing and how the Republican party is nothing but a bunch of liars and idiots, I have to roll my eyes and sigh.

The truth is usually somewhere in the middle, which is not where Sonia sits in her book.

I am a woman, so when I read page after page after page of how wonderful women are, and how Sonia feels like the sun shines brighter and food tastes better now that she’s found out how wonderful women are, I just have to roll my eyes and sigh.  Women are just women.  Men are just men.  Your sex does not make you wonderful.  Your individual actions make you wonderful, whether you are a man or a woman.

Johnson also talked about how she had the whole Western Civilization stolen away from her (art, music, etc) because all of it was done by males, and therefore it isn’t her history after all.  Whatever.  That makes no sense to me.  When someone in England writes, say, a huge seven volume set of fiction about a boy who is a wizard, I can love those books, even though the person who wrote them lives in England (and I live in the US).

Do I love them more because they are from England?  No.  Do I love them less? No.  Do I love them more because they are written by a female?  No.  Do I love them less?  No.  I love the books because they are great books.  I couldn’t care less if they were written by a two-fingered asexual being who lives in the wilds of the Amazon and only comes out once a year to give the publishing house another book.  None of that matters.  The books matter.

So to me, Johnson’s stance on womanhood and women and all of that jazz was a little over the top.  There were parts that made me go, “Hey, you’re right; I had never thought about that!” - don’t get me wrong.  I am not saying that I disagreed with the whole book.  There were just parts that made me shake my head and go, “What?  What are you talking about?”

I thought it was interesting that when she discusses her marriage with her husband (and how it was that they got divorced right in the middle of her excommunication from the LDS Church) she says something about how wonderful women are, and that it’s too bad that she’s irrevocably heterosexual.  When she said that, I thought, “Really?  Are you sure?”  She was giving off a definite homosexual vibe to me.

Well, when I finished the book this afternoon, I decided to do a little Googling to see what I could come up with.  And sure enough, according to Wikipedia, Sonia Johnson is a homosexual.  She has a partner who she runs a business with down in New Mexico (Casa Feminista).

I have zero problems with that - I absolutely believe that homosexuals have every right to their lifestyle that I have to mine.  I was 110% behind the defeat of Proposition 8 in California, and was disgusted that it was passed.  I just thought that it was interesting that she had so strongly given off that vibe to me, and that she wouldn’t have even realized it herself at the time.  But this book was written 28 years ago - plenty of time to discover new sides to yourself that you didn’t know before.

While I was reading the Wikipedia article, I found out that Sonia really has jumped off the deep end when it comes to other beliefs, though.  She has since decided that the Equal Rights Amendment is wrong, along with a lot of other important laws, because she believes that all laws are wrong.

Yes, you read that right - all laws.  She believes that women should leave the United States (and other countries too) and form their own government with no men in it at all.  Oh, and that all governments are bad because they are all inherently patriarchal.  Therefore, you should separate from the US and form your own government where there are no men.

See what I’m saying about the whole “too out there for me” thing?  Sonia was absolutely right when it came to the ERA - the Mormon Church should have NEVER stood in the way of its passing, and certainly should not have excommunicated her for fighting against it.  I agree with all of that 100%.

What I don’t agree with is her more extreme viewpoints, and since the book was peppered throughout with that, it made for a difficult read.  I am a very fast reader but it took me about a week and a half to finish this book, when it would normally only take me a day or perhaps two to finish a book of this size.  But I had to read it in chunks because anything more than that was too much to handle.

Johnson has three sons and I wonder what they think about her extreme views when it comes to males.  Aren’t they hurt or upset that their own mother wants to start a country that excludes all males?  It’s just so bizarre to me.

All of that to say that I certainly would never recommend this book to someone who is just tentatively questioning the Church because they would walk away with an extremist view of ex-Mormons.  But if you have already left the Mormon Church and you are a strong feminist, then I think you’ll really adore this book.

Speaking of, the phrase “feminist” has always bothered me.  I have always thought of a feminist as being a female who hates males and thinks that they are not equal to males - that females are better than males.  But according to Sonia, a feminist is simply someone who thinks that females and males should be equal.  Under that definition, I am most definitely a feminist.

So what is the phrase for someone who thinks that females are better than males (which is Sonia’s viewpoint now)?  Certainly there is a phrase for that, right?  There’s gotta be.  If you know, please leave a comment below - thanks.

So that was my take on the book.  Have any of you read it, and if so, what were your feelings?  I’d love to hear about it below.  And while we’re speaking of the stories of ex-Mormons, be sure to submit yours via the submission page.  Thanks!

When I first decided to leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (the only true church upon the face of the earth, and obviously a decision made because I couldn’t live without coffee for a minute longer) I had the unenviable task of telling my family, my friends, and my coworkers of my decision.  Because I live in an area dense with Mormons, I was not the only LDS member working at the library; I had three coworkers who were also Mormon.

Tangent: Why is it that leaving the Church has to be such a big deal?  You can’t just stop attending.  Nnnooooo.  There is so much that goes into “being Mormon.”  Your underwear, for one thing.  There are garment lines, and then there are “normal people” underwear lines.  If I had stopped wearing my garments without telling my coworkers first, they would have noticed anyway.  Every time I bent over and had a normal panty line under my slacks, it would broadcast to the world that I was no longer wearing the ol’ garmies.

But anyway, back to my story.  So I tell the two Mormon ladies who work at my library that I am leaving the Church.  I told them both that I am leaving because of doctrinal issues, not because someone offended me or something ridiculous like that, and that it was a hard decision to make.  They both were kind and understanding and never once did I feel weird around them because of it.  They loved me before I told them (both of these gals are my friends) and they loved me afterwards.

Then comes the male coworker.  He had always struck me as being strange, and unfortunately, the more I got to know him, the more I realized that there was more than one screw loose in his head.  But he had only been working at the library for a couple of months at that point, and although I had talked to him some, I really didn’t know him that well (he worked in a different department than me, so our paths only crossed occasionally).

Let’s call him Bob, shall we?

So when I told Bob what was happening with me, and that I did not leave the Church because someone offended me, blah blah, he was visibly upset about the whole thing.  He started pressing me with questions, but I was busy and didn’t have time to answer any of them.  (His main question was which websites I had gone to get information because he wanted to read those websites too, to see what would cause me to lose my testimony.)

The next time I see him, the first words out of his mouth were, “So who offended you?”

“Excuse me, what?” I said, completely confused.

“I just wanted to know who offended you and caused you to leave the Church.”

I stared at him, a little slack jawed.  Please know that out of all of the many people that I have told that I have left the Church, he is the ONLY one who has asked me this question.  What makes him a completely idiot is the fact that I had already flat out told him that no one had offended me.  It was as if in his little bubble, no one could possibly leave the Church because of doctrinal reasons.  That simply couldn’t be it.  It had to be because someone was mean to me one day in Sacrament Meeting.

“No one offended me,” I said slowly, as if talking to a slightly mentally retarded human being (which on second thought, is exactly what was happening.)  “If the LDS Church was really true, then I would never throw away my eternal salvation because someone was rude to me.  That’s just idiotic.  I left because of doctrine and the history of the Church.  There are things that you will never learn about in Sunday School, but are a real part of what happened in the Church.  When I found out the truth, I left.”

After that, I became a target to Bob’s obsessive questions.  He bore his testimony to me.  He told me that I ought to be scared of him telling his wife what happened, because she doesn’t put up with things like this (what, is she going to come beat me up?  I had met his wife, and she was a nice lady.  I kinda doubt the woman was going to take out my kneecaps.)  He asked a great deal of questions about what I had found, and pushed me several times to bring in the website address for the site that made me lose my testimony. (FYI: I’ve posted it before, but here it is again, for those who want to know).

After a month of being hounded by the guy, I finally told him that I wasn’t going to discuss it anymore.  I told him I had already had a lot of pain inflicted upon me by my true-believing mother and grandmother, and I wasn’t going to get into a discussion of the truthfulness of the LDS Church any longer.

To his credit, he finally stopped pestering me.

Unfortunately, that just meant that all of it festered inside of him, making him crazy with questions.  Those questions eventually came out, but they were directed at someone else: My good friend, Tiffy, a coworker of mine at the library.

Tiffy is a born-again Christian, but she is one of those good ones who doesn’t feel the need to push her beliefs onto other people.  She’s also the unlucky soul that I drug to the open house of the local temple before it was dedicated.  I had told Bob that she was coming with me, and at that point, he had no idea that I was questioning the Church.  He thought I was being a good member missionary like all Mormons should be.

One day a couple of weeks ago, Tiffy was downstairs doing a check in of the books, when Bob appeared.  His desk is fairly close to the downstairs check-in desk, but he wasn’t actually supposed to be anywhere near that area at the time.  He was on duty in the children’s department, but as usual, this did not bother Bob.  Small things like “doing your job” are not real big on his priority list.  (You think I’m being sarcastic because the guy is not real high on my favorites list, and even though that’s true, every word of this post is the un-exaggerated truth.  Bob wouldn’t know what hard work was if it came up and sat on his lap.  Sadly enough for those of us working with him).

So there was Bob, down by his desk, pretending to work.  Then he’d drift over and watch Tiffy check-in items on the computer.  Then he’d drift back to his desk.  Then back to Tiffy.  Tiffy told me that this entire experience was a little surreal, because he never said anything to her, and she couldn’t figure out why he was watching her do her job, since he is in no way her supervisor.  He finally blurted out, “Does the Lyoness smoke?”

“What?!” Tiffy said, completely surprised by the question.

“Well, I heard her say that she was trying coffee and beer and other things that are against the Word of Wisdom, and one day, I walked past her and she smelled like smoke.  So I thought maybe she had started smoking too.”

Now you guys all know my thoughts on smoking.  I’ve made them perfectly clear.  I’ve had this discussion with Tiffy too because we have to deal with smokers as patrons who come into the library all the time, and who stink so bad of cigarette smoke that we’re forced to hold our breath while helping them at the front counter.  Just the smell alone is enough to give me a headache.

So Tiffy knew my thoughts on smoking, and she promptly told Bob what they were, and added that if you stand next to smoker long enough, you’re going to briefly smell like smoke until the smell dissipates, and so that was no doubt what he had smelled.  She also said that the same thing could happen with any of the people who work at the front desk.

The conversation went on for a while after that.  I cannot remember exactly what else he asked about (since this is all being relayed to me second hand, I want to be sure I’m only reporting everything I’m positive of happening) but I do remember that Tiffy said that Bob had a spirit of meanness about it.  She said that he wasn’t asking questions because he was truly worried about me, but instead because he was mad and basically wanted the dirt on me.  I’m shocked he didn’t start asking questions about my sex life.

Strangely enough, he also seemed upset with Tiffy, and (according to her) seemed to be placing a lot of the blame of me leaving on her shoulders.  (Of course!  The only thing he hasn’t blamed my leaving on is global warming, but I’m sure that’s next).  Apparently, because Tiffy is a born-again Christian, she was a bad influence on me and caused me to leave The Only True Church Upon the Face of the Earth.  When she relayed that bit of information to me, I burst out laughing.

“If you’re such a big influence on me, then why, pray tell, am I not at a Christian church every Sunday morning?”

This guy is a whack job, no doubt about it.

With every new outrageous piece of the story, I laughed harder.  We made fun of Bob’s sheer stupidity, and had a great time of it, I’ll admit.  But then I started to think about it, and I started to get angry.  I mean, really pissed off.  How dare he interrogate my friend at work about my religious beliefs?!!  It was bad enough that he pestered me with questions for a month straight, when that sort of behavior is not at all appropriate for the work setting.  But my friends too?!

That’s where I draw the line.

I went directly into the director’s office and told her what was happening.  Although I left the Church last fall, she had no idea that I had, nor that there had been any fall out because of it.  I don’t tell her about my personal life, and she doesn’t ask.  That’s the way a working relationship is supposed to work, right?

Somebody needs to tell that to good ol’ Bob.

Well, actually, somebody did.  The director, to be precise.  She pulled him into her office and said, “I’ve had some employees and supervisors report that they are having some problems,” and just from that sentence, he immediately jumped to my situation, although neither Tiffy nor I are a supervisor.  I can’t decide if that’s because his conscience had started to bother him and he realized he shouldn’t have said what he did, or if it’s because he went home and told his wife what happened and she told him he was a nimwit, and pointed out the problems with what he did (she comes across as being the smarter of the two).

Either way, the end result has been that Bob has refused to speak to or even look at either Tiffy or I since this incident.  Which is good, because at first I was worried that he was going to come up to me and start pushing things with me again.  I had already resolved to scream harassment from the rafters if he did this, and possibly bring a lawsuit down on his worthless butt (I am not a fan of frivolous lawsuits, but there is a limit and I had reached it) but luckily for me, he’s apparently decided that he would instead never speak to me again.

Hey, I can live with that.

I’m just wondering how much longer he can last before he approaches someone else in the library and starts asking them about my religious beliefs and habits.  I warned all of my friends at the library (anyone who I could even possibly conceive of him wanting to approach) about what happened, and also told them to tell him to shut up because I was lawsuit happy, and he better not risk it.

So far, he hasn’t breathed a word about me to any of my coworkers/friends (and really, I consider almost everyone I work with a friend - it is a great group of people!!!! - other than him, of course) and I’m really hoping it’ll stay that way.

But it does make me realize how indoctrinated some Mormons can get, that they don’t even realize that their behavior is beyond the pale.  It is so natural to them that it doesn’t cross their minds that they could be heavily offending the person they are talking to.

I grateful that this type of Mormon is far and few between.  I may not be a fan of the LDS Church (understatement of the century) but as a whole, I don’t have any problems with its members.  After all, most of my family and my friends are Mormons.

I love the people, hate the religion.

So, dear readers, when you left, did you have problems with coworkers leaving you alone?  Tell me about it below, or submit your story via the submission page.

In my post, “There is no God but the LDS Church is true,” I wrote the following:

Joseph Smith said that he has done more for mankind than anyone else (including Jesus), and apparently the Church agrees with him. We have buildings named after him, we sing his praises, and we teach our children that he restored the True Church to the earth, along with their ABC’s.

I had a commentor respond to my post by saying:

One error you did make however is that church leaders always use the quote “Joseph Smith has done more for mankind save Jesus Christ.”  Save means besides.

I don’t want to say something that is incorrect on my site - if I am wrong, then I am more than willing to admit to it.  I decided to research the subject to see what I could figure out.  I found the following quotation from the History of the Church, Volume 6 (this is Joseph Smith talking. It is entitled “His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo.”)

I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.

If you want to verify that I am not taking this out of context, please check out the online version of the History of the Church, Volume 6 - hit Ctrl + F to find this quotation on the webpage.  I can’t link to the exact spot on the webpage, sorry.  If you have the set of the History of the Church volumes and want to find it in your own books at home, look on pages 408 - 409.

So, was my original quotation exactly right?  No.  But the gist of it is the same.  Joseph Smith is saying that he has more to boast of than any other man, more than Jesus Christ even.

Yeah, I’d say that was pretty egotistical.

Thoughts?

While I’m waiting around for more people to submit their stories to me *cough* HINT! *cough* I thought I’d write up my thoughts on the Word of Wisdom, and what’s happened with me since I’ve left the LDS Church.

The very first day that I took off my garments and told my husband I didn’t believe in God or the Church anymore, we went out to eat to celebrate.  (NOTE: This is not the normal reaction from a spouse when you tell them that everything the two of you have ever believed in is a lie.  I just happen to be extremely lucky. :-D)  As I’ve already said, I tried coffee with my meal that evening, and it tasted like wet dirt.  With cream and sugar in it, it tasted like sweet, wet dirt.

Undeterred, I have tried it multiples times since, thinking that THIS time, I’d like it.  I’ve tried the plain coffees and I’ve tried fancy coffees (I would tell you the names of them, but I can’t remember so I won’t even try) but even when the coffee was supposedly flavored to taste like Milky Way candy bars, it still tasted like slightly chocolately wet dirt.

I’m just not seeing the draw here.

Then I moved on to tea.  Surely tea would taste good, right?  But unfortunately, that’s stuff so weak, it’s like trying to drink watered down water mixed with a little unidentifiable somethings.  I like my flavoring strong - when I make hot chocolate, I use twice the mix that normal people do.  One 8 packet for 8 oz of water?  You’ve got to be kidding.  Let’s try two packets with 6 oz of water - now we’re talking!

So no, no tea for me.

I was telling a friend this, and she suggested chai tea.  I thought, “Tea, chai tea…What’s the difference?”  But, I figured I might as well give it a shot and see what happens.

Oh. My. God.  I am in LOVE with chai tea.  I found this brand called Oregon Chai that I absolutely adore.   Oh yeah…When I mix up a cup of that, it’s what I imagined coffee would be all those years: Sweet, strong, warm, and absolutely yummy.  If you ever want to try out chai tea, for the Original kind and try that first, mixed with a little milk.  A little piece of heaven right there in your mug.

Then there’s of course the biggie: Alcohol.  When I was a teenager, I always felt virtuous that I wasn’t drinking.  At EFY’s and those kinds of meetings, I was constantly hearing talks about how you shouldn’t drink and that I needed to resist the social pressure, blah blah blah.

Well you know what would have worked even better than that?  Simply giving all of the kids in the group a sip of beer.  One taste of that NASTY stuff, and they would never be tempted to break the Word of Wisdom again.  Here’s my rundown of all of the different types of alcohol that Deej and I have tried since leaving the Mormon Church:

*Beer is this nasty yeasty crap that leaves an awful taste in your mouth. Yuck and double yuck.

*Rum tastes like rubbing alcohol.  Ever opened a bottle of rubbing alcohol and breathed in the nasty fumes?  Now imagine drinking that.  Yeah….

*Wine and champagne taste like rotten fruit.  Seriously.  If you let grapes go so bad that they started growing mold, and then you ate the grapes, then you would know what wine tastes like.  Champagne is the same.  Why do people purposefully drink this stuff?!

The only beer that we’ve found that we like, is beer that doesn’t taste like beer.  There’s a surprise. But we’ve found that Mike’s Hard Lemonade is great - it tastes just like a carbonated lemonade drink would taste.  The lime version tastes just like 7-Up.  We also tried Smirnoff and really like the Wild Grape flavor - it tastes like grape soda.

So why drink alcohol if it just tastes like sodas?  Well because unlike sodas, these will give you somewhat of a buzz.  I say somewhat because it is hard for me to drink enough to get even a small buzz going.  The alcohol content on these is so low that I’d have to start drinking in the afternoon in order to by drunk by nightfall.  Not going to happen.

The good news is, I am not drinking to get drunk.  I have never been drunk and I don’t plan on getting drunk anytime soon.  So what’s the point?  After I’ve had a really hard day, I like to pop open a Smirnoff or Mike’s, put in a movie, and relax in the couch.  It’s a good way to unwind.  I only do it once a week (twice a week on a really crazy one) so I’m not exactly in danger of becoming an alcoholic anytime soon.

I haven’t tried cigarettes yet, and can’t honestly can’t imagine what would ever induce me to try one.  I suppose if I was paid enough (like in the hundreds of thousands of dollars range) I would smoke one whole cigarette.  But since I sincerely doubt anyone would be stupid enough to pay me that kind of money to watch me cough and choke my way through a whole cigarette, I think that’s more of an academic exercise than anything.

As a whole, I think cigarettes are nasty, expensive, cancer-inducing pieces of crap that literally no one I have ever talked to is happy about being addicted to.  Have you ever met someone who said, “I’m so glad to be a smoker.  It makes my life so much better”?  Perhaps I’ve just been hanging around the wrong people, but I have yet to meet someone who felt that way.  (I am not bashing people who smoke cigarettes.  I’m just saying that for me, it’s not happening.)

My husband said the other day that he always thought cigars looked like kind of a cool, and smelled different (in a good way) but he didn’t know if he’d ever smoke one.  I’m there with him - I think cigars are more “exotic” than cigarettes, so they have a mysterious appeal to them.  Still doesn’t mean I’d actually want to smoke one (or be married to someone who smoked them).

So that’s been me and the post-Mormon Word of Wisdom world.  Has anyone else left the Church and been disappointed by what they’ve since tried?  I’d love to hear your thoughts below!

I am constantly on the lookout for more stories for this site (because after all, I didn’t name this site “The Lyoness’ Exit Story from the Church” - I want more on here than just my blatherings.  As ultra-cool as my blatherings are, of course.)

So, being a thinking gal, I hit up my husband for his story.  I figured it might make a compelling counterpart to my story (reading the same basic story line but from two different perspectives would be interesting, right?) but when I suggested this to him, he just laughed.

“I’m not ex-Mormon,” he said.  “My name is still on the records of the Church.”  After I pointed out to him that my name was still on the Church records too, he said, “Oh.  Then what’s your definition of ex-Mormon?”

(Don’t ask me why he thought my name had been taken off.  I’m still confused about that part…)

Fast forward a couple of weeks to this morning, when I had a fantastic lady get in touch with me via PM on an ex-Mormon forum.  She told me that she was never part of the Mormon Church, but that her daughter and grandsons were Mormon, and that she had joined this forum as a way of learning more about the church that had such a big influence on her daughter’s life.

I invited her to write up her story and submit it on here, so we could have her perspective.  She responded and said that I have a “broader outlook” on this kind of thing than the other post-Mormons she had met.

Hmmm…I’m starting to get the feeling that perhaps my ideas of what should be posted on this site is different than what others might think should be posted on this site. With that in mind, I am going to post the general outline of people who I would love to see write their story and submit it:

• Someone who joined the Church, left the Church, and had their name removed from the records of the Church.  These are as “ex-Mormon” as you get, eh?  But even I don’t qualify under this category (although I have the letter typed up and was planning on printing it tomorrow when I have access to a printer.)  But yeah, as of right now, I’m on the rolls of the LDS Church.  Which brings me to the next group of people…
• Someone who left the Church and has told their family and friends of their departure (at least most of them) but hasn’t officially had their name taken off the records yet for whatever reason. (Mine is laziness.  In case you were wondering.)
• Someone who has doesn’t believe in the LDS Church, but hasn’t stopped attending yet because of family and friends pressure (my brother Bruce easily falls under this category, as does - sort of - my questioning sister).  The key here is the lack of belief in the Church.
• Someone who was never a Mormon, but who deals with Mormons on a regular basis, especially a family member who joined.  Even someone who works with a bunch of Mormons in the office would qualify.  The slang term is “never Mo’s” which is of course short for “never Mormon.”  But because the LDS Church is so pervasive, being around someone who is a true-believing Mormon on a regular basis is a learning experience all in itself, and I think that we could really learn from that perspective.

Notice that nowhere on this list is the mention of other beliefs.  Someone isn’t considered Mormon until they find another religion to delve into (or until they become atheist) - many Mormons leave the Church and flail around for a while, trying to find their bearings.  I think the majority of ex-Mormons do that - they leave the Mormon Church and are reluctant to join another religion for fear of being duped again.  That doesn’t mean they are still Mormons because they don’t have another religion to claim.

I think this site ought to be full of stories written by people who A) Do not believe the LDS Church is true, and B) Want to share the interactions they’ve had with the LDS Church and/or LDS Church members.  Is that broad enough for you?

So, feeling up to telling your story?  Drop me a line on my submission page, and tell me your story.  I can’t wait to hear it.

My story is pretty simple.  My family on both sides is Mormon, several generations back on the one side.  My father is the oldest of 12.  My mother an only child.  My parents got married out of BYU.  Naturally, myself and all my siblings went to the church as required.

But I never liked it.  I have no interest in shutting off my brain for anyone nor can I tolerate intolerance.  I literally cannot recall a time I didn’t feel that way.  By the time we were teenagers at my family, my parents stopped pushing church (I believe my father had his own issues with it, particularly what he saw as misogyny - he was very feminist) and the children gratefully stopped going.

Unfortunately, I was baptized and still had many family members anxious to bring me back to the church, so, every time I moved, home teachers would show up at my door, believing themselves to be welcoming a member.  I dislike hurting people’s feelings, so I wrote the Church and asked how I could stop this.  I was told I could only stop it by being excommunicated.  This I requested and they complied.

Yay me.  I don’t and can’t believe in a God that would ask me to turn off the brain he gave me for faith, who would ask me to violate my conscience, and who loves any of his children more than others.

I’m perfectly happy with a belief system no one has to subscribe to but me.

~Written by the Rocket Scientist

This is the final portion of Rainfeather’s story.  To start at the beginning, be sure to check out Part One and Part Two.

This is how the situation remained for the next four years. I thought that I would just go on that way, never being absolutely sure if the Church was true or not, accepting the possibility that it might not be, but leaving the door open to the possibility that it still could be true. But after four years, I realized that I couldn’t leave it that way. I had to know for sure and deal with the situation once and for all. Was I going back, or was I leaving for good?

I’d attended the funeral of a friend’s mother and realized how much I missed the social connection. I hadn’t been to that chapel in four years and realized that I’d really missed my friends. They were so happy to see me and their warm welcome confused me. But I had to be true to myself and find out if I could go back. I didn’t know if I could ever regain my testimony and I couldn’t attend church if it was a lie.

Once I started studying on-line, the first thing that I discovered was the Proposition 8 battle going on in California. That took me straight back to the petition from about ten years before that I’d felt pressured to sign. They lied to us! They promised that they would never get involved in politics, and yet here they were, fighting other people’s civil rights and getting actively involved in politics.

I was shocked, appalled, horrified and disgusted. I couldn’t believe that people in Utah were fighting the rights of individuals in California. What about agency? How could they possibly justify trying to take away the agency and civil rights of others? These were people who had nothing to do with them, and were hurting no one, but were only trying to live their own lives.

By clicking on several links while I searched online, for the first time I felt brave enough to read some sites which would be considered as anti-Mormon sites by the Church. At first, I’d read a bit, feel nervous and leave the site. That Mormon conditioning would kick in, telling me that I shouldn’t be there.

Back in 1998, I’d been an LDS chat room host. Facing criticism about the Church on a daily basis, I’d bought several books on answering anti-Mormon questions. I thought that I was an expert on such things and prided myself in knowing all of the deepest aspects of the Gospel. As a chat room host I had even managed to help bring an ex-Mormon back into the Church. But I couldn’t believe what I was reading. I tried to stay away, but kept being drawn back to these sites.

I quickly found that some of the anti-Mormon sites contained some pretty silly theories about the Church and I couldn’t really take them seriously. I decided to leave them alone.

The sites which attracted me the most were the ex-Mormon sites. These people were just like me. Many had truly loved the Church and wanted it to be true. They did not have it in mind to destroy their testimonies, but they couldn’t deny the information they were finding. It was just as devastating to them as it was for me. Some of them had lost loved ones because of the truths that they’d found and couldn’t deny. It was heartbreaking.

The fact that I was the only Church member in my family used to be difficult for me, but for the first time I realized that I was the lucky one. My family was supportive of me leaving. I’m very grateful for the wonderful on-line ex-Mormon community that I found.

When I first realized that the Church was not what it purported to be, I was frightened. The LDS Church teaches you that if you have a testimony of the truthfulness of the Gospel and then leave, that it would be better for you had you never been born. That’s absolutely terrifying. Now I’ve learned about cults and how they manipulate you with fear.

This report is long enough as it is, so I won’t go into the extremely long list of problems I found with the ‘real’ history of the Church, as opposed to what I’d been taught was the Church’s history. I was devastated and shocked by what I’d found. Again, they lied to me! I was really angry at this point.

I remember one specific moment when I sat back in my computer chair and thought, “It’s not true! Oh my gosh! It’s actually, really not true!” That thought had never really occurred to me before, but I’m pretty sure that the light bulb moment came after I discovered that the Book of Abraham was indisputably, absolutely 100% not what the Church claimed it to be. That immediately called the Book of Mormon origins into question, so I studied further.

The list of proofs is long, but suffice it to say that my testimony is now that I’m absolutely certain that the Church is not true. Joseph Smith was not a prophet. He was a money digging, immoral, egotistical, narcissistic charlatan.

I’m furious that the Church knew about the problems with the Book of Abraham more than ten years before I was ever baptized, and yet they passed it off as scripture without so much as batting an eyelash. Now it is my task to heal. I have the help of my wonderful new online friends. I’ve lost my fear, because I’m now certain of the real truth, so I’m ready. Tomorrow, I will mail in my resignation letter.

I’m finally free to find out who I really am, and what I truly believe. I wish I’d learned the truth at a much younger age. I’m now 50. But I’m hoping that I still have many years ahead of me to learn, study and to grow. I’ve discovered how fun it is to explore all of the possibilities out there, instead of being locked into one specific mindset.

I’ll probably never be involved with organized religion again. My trust is too shattered now. But that’s okay. Being true to myself is the most important thing to me now, and I will never again allow other people, or another organization to tell me what to believe. I will be me, whoever that is. I imagine the discovery will be fun and I look forward to it.

~Rainfeather